Farzal Dojki is one of those people that bring innovation and perfection to everything they do. A truly inspirational story on how far he has come along with the insights and experiences he shares so candidly with Jehan Ara, President of P@SHA on this episode of In The Line Of Wire! A Must Watch!!
ITLOW: Ep 33 – Presenting Farzal Dojki
- Posted on 06.19.09
- Featured, In The Line of Wire
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29 Responses to “ITLOW: Ep 33 – Presenting Farzal Dojki”
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Atlas also re-launched Genie … They will keep launching products for the 1% ..
Fingers crossed for Branchless Banking via STK or SMS !
With MCB launching mobile banking and wateen launching its portal, i suppose two predictions came true within a couple of weeks time.
So where we are dangling now is the edge of branchless banking.
@farzal, when are you publishing your book?
interesting interview and comment thread.
a lot of points already addressed but still i feel the need to talk my part out
@the solid industry exp or for a success story . funny
@the publicizing and telling ppl that nobody is doing enough , i think farzal didnt stop at that and that ammana is working along those lines and that his later post did identify that he has done his research in the field.
@ the success story.
i think its much more interesting to watch one story unfold rather than read it at the end. Keeps you closer to reality
@ statistics.
Pakistan has one of the highest penetration of cellphones. so m commerce is the next step. why is it taking so late is something to be looked into. maybe the setup need a little restructuring. but looking at farzal’s forecasts i would say we are sitting on the edge of a spike. do we have enough support for the m-revolution to make it work. are we looking at enough business opportunist who will capitalize on it and make it work.
the ppl being illiterate is something that can always be overcome.you always have voice enabled msgs if not text and text msgs in local languages.
we are looking at opportunities to make things happen not at reasons to say this cant happen. (this is one of the core values of entrepreneurship).
@farzal dabbing himself in so many areas
this is globalization. you are supposed to know everything to survive. and i think his focus has remained economics and IT. his exposure is vast and that gives him enough arsenal to handle different startups and solving real problems .
@farzal as a teacher in IBA,
i think his course material was more up to date than any other teacher’s. Esp when you are teaching a dynamic subject as ecomm whr the whole landscape chnges in the course of a semester. He thought us to look at the picture, identify the problem and come up with a solution. and not to turn away from it sayin it cant happen. you learn skills, if you dont have them, you gather resource if you lack them and you wait for the environment variables to be favorable to be successful.
@mobilink VAS svcs not being utilized. they arent being utilized. that is true. a lot of svc being offered yet ppl arent using them as much as they should be.
@the discussion.
it should move towards what will happen in the next 12- 18 months and how can we exponentiate the growth.
@twitter being called. Please. do call them. =)
@jehan ara. You look lovely in the interview.
Thanks to the ‘community’ for speaking up. Hopefully I will get to know more of you as time goes.
OK, so here are some predictions on the M-Commerce space will play out in the next 12 to 18 months. These are based on my last 2 years of interaction with over 20 banks, 4 GSM Carriers and SBP.
I hope Asif Sahab gives me some credit for having some practical knowledge.
A little bit of cautious innovation from Financial sector, and a LOT of great stuff from GSM carriers.
—
1. About 5 Banks will launch some kind of a Mobile Payment interface, allowing inter-bank payments and bill payments.
1a. These services will work mostly for GPRS based phones with Java apps, and target the 5-10% Banked sector of Pakistan.
1b. Intra-bank payments will most likely not be available initially but added after wards.
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2. At least 2 Telcos, maybe 3 or 4, will launch the more exciting Branchless Banking products. These will be the real innovations.
2a. Service will work either with existing SIM or require SIM replacement. Text messages and SIM menu will be used, as opposed to complicated GPRS and Java apps.
2b. The services will attract the banked and unbanked. From milk collection centres to Courier Locations. financial services will be finally available outside of Branches.
–
3. Warid, Wateen & Bank Al-Falah trip will play out something. They SHOULD. they have the PERFECT eco-system available within their parent group and do not need to do acquisitions like Telenor had to.
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4. One of the larger Telcos will have a major product for web-based checkouts promoting E-Commerce in Pakistan. It could be PTCL, Wateen or Mobilink.
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5. Telenor will launch services for farmers – letting them earn more for their hard work.
—
I can name the exact banks and telcos for points #1 & #2 but choosing not to, for now. Perhaps a blog entry or CIO article to discuss this whole scenario is the next step.
Asif – Let me comment on the points addressed to me –
1. Thank you for the continued commenting. This is exactly the kind of conversation threads we need to have more of.
2. I think Farzal’s articles state that he was referring to figures from the State Bank and not the PTA. Stats which actually reflect ground realities points to transparency and the real picture, which may not put some companies or authorities in the right kind of light. 90+ million SIMs sold is meaningless unless every telecom companies will reveal an exact number of active SIMs; the total # of internet users is irrelevant unless every company reveals how many are active and how many people per household actually make use of a connection. Whether it is software licenses or anything else, the numbers are always kept as top secret. However, with things like MNP for an e-enabled platform, telecom companies, for example, will have to share SOME data. You have a valid point that if the case FOR m-commerce is so strong, then why hasn’t anyone been able to garner ANY success, and I think a lot of people are asking the same question though I don’t think anyone really knows the answer since we don’t have a culture of holding people or authorities accountable for (or lack thereof) their actions.
On a side note for this point, we’re trying to organize a discussion with the State Bank Governor upon his return to try and find out where the bottlenecks are, and have the stakeholders in place so we can identify what is holding us back.
3. Yes.. The TPS story was a great one. We all have our methods of measuring success. I’d argue and I’m sure Jehan Ara will agree with me, that we’re trying to showcase the diversity in our industry. The industry has success stories and they will be featured, but if we don’t give a leg up to the Small Fries – people who can inspire, motivate or lead, very soon – we’ll run out of successes AND stories.
Again, many thanks for stopping by!
I think Farzal and everyone else misinterpreted me in terms of experience. In my comments, I have not said that you should invite(d) someone having 15+ years experience, my point was/is that it is much easy for someone coming from US, looking at the statistical numbers and start publicizing the importance, need and the lack of work being done by the industry and people within Pakistan. MY point still is that there are number of initiatives taken in the mcommerce area by service providers, banks and telcos, so Farzal saying in this interview that not much is being done would not be correct.
Just to clarify, I have no personal grudge with Farzal infact really envy him of attending such institutions of international repute. However, gathering statistics from multiple sources, making mcommerce models and saying everyone is just sleeping and not doing anything in the e/m commerce area is completely incorrect.
For Farzal’s information/clarification, local industry has really moved on from SMS alerts now. Everyone within the industry knows the difference between SMS alerts and pure SMS an/or mobile banking. There are number of initiatives underway at banking as well telco level to come up with a wide scale mobile payments setup. So as per your comments in the interview its not that no one is realizing the importance of mpayments, the crust of the matter is that HOW TO MAKE IT SUCCESSFULL? which model and/or service is that foolproof which can easily get go-aheads from all government agencies including SBP, PTA.
Commenting on the statistics you’ve shared that 40% of customers at present use SMS. I would seriously like to know the authenticity and source of this information. Because based on my 5 years experience in the VAS industry of Pakistan, it cannot be as high as 40%. Again, my point here is that in Pakistan unfortunately statistics generally do not reflect the on ground realities. Just an example, PTA states total mobile subscribers stand at somewhere 91million but infact these are subscriptions not subscribers which means that the 57.5% teledensity claim is also falsified.
The reason of giving these examples is to highlight my point that if someone is basing his business model on these figures then he/she might not be able to get desired success stories.
It’s been 4 years with g-cash from phillipines came to Pakistan and it was the first time a seminar was held on m-payments/banking. even after 4 years still nothing concrete has happened in this area, WHY? because statistics are not reflecting the right ground realities!
I have read Farzal’s articles in CIO as well but would stand by my stance that if someone comes from outside and starts talking about an unexplored opportunity claiming that everyone else in Pakistan is not doing enough is wrong!
For @rabia and @jehan ara, my point is that you should invite young professionals on such forums however please check if there is a success story associated with these professionals. Anyone commenting on mcommerce or the slow progress on it should atleast have some mcommerce success story to authenticate his comments. For example, your interview of Shahzad of TPS was brilliant because TPS guys made a success story and it was good to listen to them, their strategy and how they did it.
Yet another wonderful show and I am glad young people are coming up setting new horizons, and doing much better then some of the “old and experienced” ones. Experience does not matter but what matters is the creativity, skills, command on what ever it is that you do and successful end results.
Btw, as always, I really enjoyed this episode. After reading his articles in CIO Pakistan, its was great to know about his life and his projects. I wish him good luck for his future endeavors.
“at least 15+ years of solid industry experience”!
I wonder why Jawed Karim was invited to speak at University of Illinois in 2006 when he had less than 10 years of industry experience.
On a serious note, I think ITLOW is not just about highly focused technical talks but it is an unique kind of show where we get to know about bright individuals who really make the difference in our industry. And Farzal is surely one of them. I love the way Jehan Ara interacts with guests and this is how we we exactly know how people achieve success in their life.
Positive criticism should always be welcomed but I’d request everyone here to not take negative criticism and personal attacks seriously. CIO Pakistan is providing a great platform here. Lets utilize it positively and do something good for our community.
@rabia: why only mobile commerce in Pakistan? Its deployment almost everywhere represents competition, instead of mature growth, for and with the banking sector.
Conceptually, the distribution power (for virtual – ie data based – commercial value transfers) of telcos and other network service providers is much more powerful than that of traditional approaches to banking network proliferation.
This is because they begin from diametrically different perspectives on trust and credibility. Actually, telcos would benefit immensely in terms of cost reductions if they switched to flat price rates in totality, dropping all attempt at identifying individual consumers, and acknowledging their marketing efforts are into retaining consumers in bulk rather than particular. However, they would have to then deal with the fact that are are in effect in a bulk distribution business, albeit one with a decent capability to enable peer-to-peer transactions. Commodity businesses don’t often attract a lot of shiny brand promotion value, which might pinch their supergrowth image.
Banks, on the other hand, depend tremendously on being able to identify individual customers, dealing as they are (in a custodian role) with the customer’s assets.
The fundamentals of this dichotomy lie in assigning an individual asset value to money itself, either the bank’s or its customers’.
To return to your question, why is it going slow in Pakistan, perhaps the banking sector needs to question its fundamental perspective. At first principles, allowing the assignation of independent asset value to money (from which naturally flows interest, which is repugnant) is itself not very soundly thought through.
Of course, actually applying those principles in practice requires systemic change (which is why it is sought to be applied in parts. It therefore has good results too only in parts – to mix a metaphor, rather like the curate’s egg).
Which is really what mobile (and e-) commerce spell, change, not competition.
When I read the comment of Mr. Nadeem Ahsan, I simply laughed out loudly! Did he really meant to say that there should be people with 15+ years experience only? Com’on it is a Retire-at-21 world bro!
ITLoW is not about bringing experienced officials to talk about the industry! It is all about the motivation to young entrepreneurs! What would you say when there’ll be an interview of a guy who is not even 18 years yet? I am talking about Haris Nadeem who is earning more than the top management of many big companies! What would you say when there be an interview of Saad Hamid who is one of the successful entrepreneurs at the age of 20? What about Siyab who is just a school going kid and is a successful entrepreneur? These guys are worth listening! And that’s what ITLoW is all about! If someone is expecting something else, this is not the right place for him!
Mr. Nadeem and Asif, FYI Farzal is a successful entrepreneur! I am proud of him! He talked about the industry and his wishes for the industry and didn’t talk at all about Amaanah. Isn’t it really great?
I am sorry, but I can’t bother a single word of criticism against ITLoW because I learn from it which I didn’t learn from my 5 year entrepreneurial experience!
My concern here is this – I love (LOVE LOVE LOVE) discussion. But the discourse has to lead to something. We’re all trying to do something to showcase people, issues and concepts that are not being talked about on mainstream media. Even critical personal opinions are cool as long as they lead to somewhere… So here’s my beef with Farzal…
@Farzal – What the HELL is wrong with mobile commerce in Pakistan? I still don’t understand why everyone is so excited about it, and still, we haven’t seemed to budge. Any ideas, would be great!
Anyone remember that ridiculous song, “living in a box, living in a cardboard box”? Why does everything have to subscribe to a rigid, prescriptive format? So if someone really bright comes along and has 2 years of experience but has produced a game changing product or experience, they shouldn’t be showcased on ITLOW because they don’t fit a narrow definition of ‘mature’? I’m not defending Farzal but I am explicitly rejecting the notion that only people with “15 years of industry experience who have been there done that” should be highlighted. JA, when the Twitter boys come to Pakistan, please ENSURE that you don’t invite them onto your show. And hands off Zuckerberg too.
@Nadeem, @Asif: it is true that most of us instinctively ‘distrust’ the stories of people much younger than ourselves, which is really the same as discounting their experience (halving the decade; using terms like immature).
I doubt that either the comments or the responses will influence newer ITLOW visitors, though, while admitting that many people do look at the reviews. Since the issues are being clarified with this ‘comments’ dialogue, I believe it has worked out net positive. If anything, the number of comments is an incentive to view the show, and a tribute to the numbers of regular visitors it attracts (given our propensity to keep our mouths shut).
Keep it up!
A very insightful conversation between Farzal and Jehan. Farzal shared his experiences with us which I personally found very encouraging as I myself changed my professional field after graduation which is a very risky decision for any freshy. Farzal also accentuated the ways and means to use technology as a major facilitator in the rural areas of Pakistan (the most God forsaken part of this country).
Kuddos to Jehan n team CIO for inviting such guests from the industry that highlight serious issues and the needs of the local industry.
In shows like these where people from various backgrounds and varied experiences are invited we are bound to see such reactions and responses.
For someone like me who has been trying to establish a tech startup here in Pakistan its good and encouraging to watch people like Farzal coming to ITLOW and share their experiences either good or bad but we do need to hear out people with almost similar experience and how they are coping up with the issues.
As for the point to invite people with 15+ years of experience, I think they should be invited but the list shouldn’t be restricted to them only as the people who we can actually relate to are the ones with lesser experience and who are not running big companies but who are just as passionate as we are and trying to run a small tech shop with an idea as wild as anything.
I actually liked the interview, and probably so because it was different, and actually about a person’s experience as his own individual self, and how he sees adding value to his work.
I’ve known Farzal personally since late 2005, and I for one can say that he has a vast experience. Coming down here from the US isn’t that easy, and to take that with a sudden act followed by adapting to the local environment, definitely not an easy job.
Most of the interviews on ITLoW are to do with success of companies, the vision of the people behind it and the future of the business. Here, we talk about the person, sharing his views and opinions, and also touching upon the experience of being a lecturer at a prominent university in the country. All things together, I’d say it was quite a treat to watch, and I share the same views that Farzal has too.
Thank you, Jehan.
It is always interesting to be open to differing points of view. @Nadeem and @Asif you have expressed your viewpoint and I for one appreciate the interest. It is only when people watch these interviews and have a discourse, that the shows will result in knowledge-sharing and opinion-sharing.
However, having said that, perhaps we need to understand the other perspective and be less judgmental. The days are gone when older people with 15+ years of experience were the only ones whose voices mattered. In ICT it is the 20 and 30 year olds who are changing the landscape and who are bringing about a technology revolution. To ignore them would be a dis-service to the entire community.
The purpose of this show is to highlight what is happening in the sector, to talk to people who are a part of it – young or old. We want to be all-inclusive and represent the entire sector. We have only just begun – we are talking to young entrepreneurs, to those who have been around a long time, to academics, to lawyers, to government representatives who are playing their part in the spread and adoption of IT and as we go forward, we will add a more diverse group – maybe users.
We are open to suggestions on how to make the shows better but I hope that people will refrain from personal attacks.
Farzal is a bright and intelligent individual who is doing his bit in the IT sector of this country. He has an opinion about various things and we gave him the opportunity to express those opinions. He did not ask to be interviewed. He is certainly not a rich brat, nor is he a show-off. He told the story as it stands. I don’t think the intent was to brag. I asked him to share his views.I hope he does not regret voicing his views.That would indeed be a sad result of what is meant to be a sharing, learning and branding exercise.
I would suggest that you differ with him if you wish but let’s keep it nice and cool, shall we?
Asif Sahab,
My experience is nearly 10 years. In addition to Merrill and BearingPoint, I have worked with 4 start-ups solving real problems, in addition to teaching at IBA for 3 years. Let’s be respectful, shall we?
I will say again – regarding your firing points, I will try to clarify. However we’ve all learned these issues can never be put to rest.
Regarding literacy limitations, please note that over 40% of mobile users in Pakistan use SMS. Specifically, these informational messages could also be in form of voice messages or IVR, which 100% of people can then use? Agreed?
Regarding financial innovations, the current state of affairs is such as ‘SMS Alerts’ were being marketed as “SMS Banking” and inter-connected branches are being called “Online Banking”. Would you agree these are glorifications of humbler achievements?
I will leave my factual writings on (lack of) payments industry to give industry stats and commentary. Please read http://www.pkeducation.com/my-writings/ and then comment?
Let’s meet and discuss how we can work together to increase adoption, educate masses and improve the speed of commercialization of these technologies.
[...] Farzal Dojki - Post, Video [...]
Dear Rabia/Nadeem
You are both right; the interview was all over the map because it was supposed to be. There were 3 broad areas – transitioning to Pakistan, teaching at IBA & using technology to assist the poor. It was the decision of the host, and many people on host’s blog seemed to have indicated they enjoyed the casual discussion.
As for your other firing points, I will try to clarify. However we’ve all learned these issues can never be put to rest.
About your point on showing off about MANY offers:
As mentioned in the show, I only had 2 offers from same companies where I did internships. MANY would be at least 5 offers, if not more. The point was made for the students to appreciate the importance of internships. I don’t think anyone would call 2 offers as being too many?
Your point on being rich kid:
I don’t know why that came across. My first legal job which I took 3 months after landing in the USA, was to work as museum security guard. My family savings were enough to pay for 3 semesters, about $30,000. To make these funds last 8 semesters and 3 summers, I supported myself through internships, research assistance, Texas state scholarships, and 80 hour a week summer jobs.
I appreciate your feedback, and I am glad you have given your input to CIO & ITLOW about interview formats.
Interesting conversation but lack of focus. Was this a personality interview or an individual’s promotion? It is good to see professionals from Pakistan experiencing Global markets and bringing that experience back to Pakistan but really Nadeem has a point here that spending 2 years in US working for 3 different companies doing N number of internships qualify you to be featured on such great platform of CIOStudio.
I seriously differ from Farzal’s viewpoint on number of thoughts he has shared. Unfortunately, either its the lack of local market insight or too much of academic information based on which he is claiming that banks are not doing anything on mobile payments front and the branchless banking regulation is eating dust for the last 16 months also claiming that Mobilink has launched 200 VAS services and nobody is using it.
For Farzal and others information there are so many companies already working in Pakistan on mobile banking/m-payments, but as we know these are financial transactions, all aspects of KYC, security, authentication etc. etc. have to be addressed before a bank launches something. Until and unless you address these IS security and banking compliance issues launching m-payments in Pakistan will not be advisable.
Another issue that I am not sure if Farzal is even aware of is the literacy and technology adoption issue. He is so much excited on sending sms alerts to farmers for crop cultivation etc. without realizing and/or understanding the ground realities where the poor farmer community (or most of them) cannot read or write english sms text messages.
The real issue with ecommerce or mcommerce is not technology limitations or ignorance/lack of interest by entrepreneurs in Pakistan, the real issue is the adoption of these 200 services offered by Mobilink by masses. How can we improve the adoption that’s the real question? and how we can make the e/m commerce that simple for the rural population to start reeping the benefits of the services for which Farzal is sharing statistics for.
Personally speaking, its far more easier for someone developing business plans on excel for meryll lynch or teaching in IBA to discuss statistics and the untapped opportunity available in Pakistan. But having been there and done that is the kind of people we want in Pakistan.
CIO is doing a great job in Pakistan specially in the IT/business landscape but my two cents advise is to put your efforts in getting the information on ground realities with individuals who really KNOW THE REALITY!
thanks
@Nadeem well – the point of bringing these professionals out is for everyone to learn, and also, to pose questions to them. Except for the financial industry and a few companies who have been operating for close to 30 years, the ‘industry’ itself is relatively new. And it’s not his ‘character’ we’re interviewing – it’s his opinions based on his experience – there is a slight difference.
I think ‘young’ is what you’re thinking of, rather than ‘immature’. And living in the US, interning at one of the world’s largest companies and living in a ‘one suitcase apartment’, is hardly a sign of being a rich brat. On the contrary, I think Farzal spoke more sense than a lot of other ‘senior’ professionals.
Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, though I’d encourage you to pose a question or two to Farzal before formulating a judgment. Do it here if you like. The pages are open for people to criticize all they want considering strong communication and an understanding of one another, is the first step in moving forward in a concerted effort.
@Farzal? @Jehan_ara? Would you please respond to any questions Nadeem Ahsan sahab may have? Thanks!
Farzal was more of a showoff. He seems to have dabbled in so many sectors in such a short career, I will have to reserve judgement. My point was please showcase only those who have at least 15+ years of solid industry experience and have been there, done that. Farzal came across as an immature rich kid who got a chance to study as an undergrad at UT Austin and was more keen to showoff the many offers he received etc etc.
@Nadeem – Thanks for the comment. The discussion was actually quite fluid. Perhaps you felt it was ‘all over the map’ because Farzal talked about his experiences in the US as well as in Pakistan, so it was meant to be ‘over the map’ quite literally!
As for mature, I don’t think THAT has ever been a problem and most of the topics discussed are quite serious in nature – perhaps the execution may have lead you to think that they were just having a great discussion… but then we don’t think viewers can enjoy something the host(s) doesn’t.
Was there something specific you were referring to? We’d be happy to improve where we can. Thanks again!
We need more mature people on this show talking about serious issues. This discussion was all over the map.
I agree with Farzal. The innovation in this country is slow.
[...] When I first met Farzal Dojki, I thought to myself “What a serious young man! He hardly ever smiles”. But over time, I have got to know him better and although he is serious about a lot of things (which is a good thing), I have discovered that he also has a great sense of humour as you will see in this episode of “In the Line of Wire”. [...]